{"id":84,"date":"2026-06-12T12:10:48","date_gmt":"2026-06-12T12:10:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84"},"modified":"2026-06-12T12:10:48","modified_gmt":"2026-06-12T12:10:48","slug":"talking-headways-podcast-are-arterials-unsafe-or-are-we-making-them-unsafe","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84","title":{"rendered":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe?"},"content":{"rendered":"<div>\n<p>This week, we have a controversial episode featuring the ultimate roads scholar, Florida Atlantic University Professor Eric Dumbaugh, slaughtering some of the sacred cows of the livable streets movement. To Dumbaugh, the issue isn\u2019t merely redesigning roads for safety, but making sure that planners don\u2019t put all the big box stores on arterials.<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=82\">In New Jersey, Mayors Show How Quickly We Can Slow Down Drivers<\/a><\/p>\n<p>We at Streetsblog USA aren\u2019t sure we\u2019re convinced, but we always like to hear from important people in the traffic space.<\/p>\n<p>And, as always, let\u2019s review all the ways you can enjoy this spirited content:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Click here for a full transcript, albeit with some AI typos.<\/li>\n<li>Click the player below to listen.<\/li>\n<li>Or check out the lightly edited excerpt below the player.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<iframe allowfullscreen=\"\" frameborder=\"0\" loading=\"lazy\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-forms\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/41606235\/height\/192\/theme\/modern\/size\/large\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/3c849c\/time-start\/00:00:00\/hide-playlist\/yes\/download\/yes\/font-color\/FFFFFF\" style=\"height: 192px; width: 100%;\" title=\"Embedded content\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<p>Here\u2019s the edited transcript:<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff Wood<\/strong>: Well, you\u2019ve got a new paper out, Land Use and Road Safety: Understanding the Persistence of Vulnerable Road User Deaths and Injuries in the United States. I\u2019m wondering if you can give us a little bit of the basics of what you found and why you were looking in this specific direction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Eric Dumbaugh:<\/strong>\u00a0So I\u2019ve been examining street design issues now for 25 years, and there\u2019s a uniquely U.S. view that street design is the solution to all things. But when it comes to arterials, European designs are indistinguishable from what we use in the United States. The lane widths, the design features are exactly the same. The difference is what we put along our streets, right?<\/p>\n<p>Everyone who goes to Western Europe on vacation comes back and says, \u201cOh, this is really rather lovely. We should have our streets designed like this.\u201d But those are essentially pre-automobile streets, the streets that were built from the Renaissance through the early industrial era. After the Second World War, they didn\u2019t build American-style, they  did not build the stuff we built. They essentially rebuilt the urban fabric that they had, and they haven\u2019t had a lot of population growth since then.<\/p>\n<p>So when we start looking at street design solutions from Europe, we need to understand that we\u2019re looking at a built environment context where the automobile is adapted into a pre-automobile form.<\/p>\n<p>The United States is totally different. Nearly all of our growth has happened since the Second World War \u2014 and all of that growth was built on an entirely different design model that came of age in the 1910s and 1920s that was centered around integrating automobile into the urban fabric.<\/p>\n<p>So the safety problem on the streets happens because we have different sorts of users entering them. So is the issue really street <em>design<\/em>? Is it speed? Or is there something else going on here?<\/p>\n<p>And what I found is that after you control for land use, things like speed and geometric design don\u2019t really matter that much. What\u2019s going on is we\u2019re putting these land uses on either side of the street and it\u2019s activating different activities there.<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=80\">Latest Report Shows That Sprawl Continues To Hamstring Youth, Limit Opportunities<\/a><\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve all seen the graphic where, you know, your chance of dying in a 40-mile-per-hour crash is like 90 percent. But to me, the question is, why is somebody walking there? They\u2019re not walking there in Sweden because there\u2019s nothing to walk <em>to<\/em>. All of those land uses are prohibited along their arterials. You can\u2019t build that stuff there.<\/p>\n<p>In the United States, our development model is we build the residential community as a cell, and then we export all of the other uses outside, to the arterials.<\/p>\n<p>And <em>that\u2019s<\/em> generating the hazard, because once you put them there, you start drawing the activities to them. You draw the pedestrians to them, you draw the cyclists to them, you draw the cars in and out of the driveways.<\/p>\n<p>Now, often here in the United States, we have debate: \u201ccars versus vulnerable users.\u201d The safety problem for these users is exactly the same, and it\u2019s the confluence of activities at these points. So the question then becomes: Why are we putting these uses in these environments, right? And what do we do about that to retrofit it going forward?<\/p>\n<p>I have a graphic in the article that I think does a good job of illustrating this:<\/p>\n<p>The traffic engineer was never tasked with city design The traffic engineer was tasked with moving traffic. That was part of the configuration that came about in the 1920s and \u201930s. They go out and they build perfectly fine roads, rural roads, ex-urban roads that are indistinguishable from the European counterparts. The difference is our planners, our local economic development people, they get real excited about bringing in growth, and they\u2019re experiencing growth, and they channel it over these roads.<\/p>\n<p>So roads that are perfectly fine in an undeveloped context become developed. Think of them as a latent hazard, right? The speed is hazardous, but it\u2019s only hazard if it\u2019s activated. And when you put these land uses on there, when your local planner colors their land-use map red and says, \u201cWe\u2019re gonna allow this development along here,\u201d they\u2019re activating that error.<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=78\">Mamdani Earmarks $96M for New Greenways as Current Paths Crumble<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A true roads scholar speaks about the real danger on our streets.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":83,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[26],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-84","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-land-use"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"A true roads scholar speaks about the real danger on our streets.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Urban Atlas Media\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"admin\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862\"},\"headline\":\"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe?\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84\"},\"wordCount\":907,\"commentCount\":0,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp\",\"articleSection\":[\"Land Use\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84\",\"name\":\"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":527},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?p=84#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"Urban Atlas Media\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862\",\"name\":\"admin\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"admin\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\"],\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/urbanatlasmedia.com\\\/?author=1\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media","og_description":"A true roads scholar speaks about the real danger on our streets.","og_url":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84","og_site_name":"Urban Atlas Media","article_published_time":"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00","author":"admin","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"admin","Est. reading time":"4 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84"},"author":{"name":"admin","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/#\/schema\/person\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862"},"headline":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe?","datePublished":"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84"},"wordCount":907,"commentCount":0,"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp","articleSection":["Land Use"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84","url":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84","name":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe? - Urban Atlas Media","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp","datePublished":"2026-06-12T12:10:48+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/#\/schema\/person\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp","contentUrl":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/3920afc79cf2178a0610ce8cad231b55.webp","width":1024,"height":527},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?p=84#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Talking Headways Podcast: Are Arterials Unsafe? Or Are We Making Them Unsafe?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/","name":"Urban Atlas Media","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/#\/schema\/person\/036f6ba8a22b3d538020592ea1365862","name":"admin","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/50b1ad2e498f523425ee0a8cc5180a210646db1622662a3d56cc405d3e0c346a?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"admin"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com"],"url":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/?author=1"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/84","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=84"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/84\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/83"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=84"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=84"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/urbanatlasmedia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=84"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}